Inovelli March 2021 Update

Got some interesting stuff in there especially the insights into the industry/inventory problems and their new Zigbee(CHoIP) products, which I personally will be waiting for before switching my Kasa switches out.

Does anyone know why CHoIP is such a big deal? Like it seems to solve the same problem that Z-Wave and Zigbee tried to solve with a lot of the same partners, so one might ask why are they making a new standard instead of fixing the old one? I am all for a new standard if warranted, but has it been listed anywhere what CHoIP solves that Zigbee and Z-Wave have not?

Is the main pull that it is based on IP and so maybe could use people’s existing network setups without a special router or am I missing a key detail?

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Once I have an opportunity to watch the video (time to make breakfast) I’ll respond.

This will always make me laugh.

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hmm … Zigbee is becoming a big deal. I’m learning a lot about zigbee as of late. But, the cost of replacing other protocols is making that venture rather slow. If I only knew then what I know now. I think my choices would be different.

Maybe I’ve missed too much but I don’t think it’s a deal at all. Many big players so I have to think it’s intended to help their bottom line and has little to do with anything to help “us”. I predict it will die due to lack of interest.

Interesting, we’re you mostly a Z-Wave household and now are trying to transition to a Zigbee one?

I have never gotten a straight answer to why Zigbee and Z-Wave exist in the same world. I glean that Z-Wave is maybe more secure due to it specifying security such as S2 and it has the device association which is cool but other than that zigbee seems to be easier to manage for the user, faster to respond for the sensors, and cheaper. Does that about cover it or am I missing something?

These are exactly my thoughts, but a little bit of apathy mixed with the overwhelming will of multiple companies is how new superfluous standards are born and that is my worry, especially with smart home becoming more mainstream with Alexa Zigbee and HomeKit to a lesser degree. I can definitely see the new people that have not been hardened by some of the BS that they companies have tried to just say, “Sure, I will give it a shot, I have nothing to lose” without asking why because that is too hard to do or simply that they do not care. Then the new standard has a foothold and best case we have 3 standards, worst case, we have to now transition over completely losing most of the prior investment.

Zwave exists to drive nice home automation enthusiasts batty…

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They both have their pro’s and cons and they both get better as they continue to innovate. I really do like the fact that with my hub I don’t have to choose one or the other but can’t use both. If zigbee is better with sensors then I can have all my sensors on that and utilize zwave for my switches and the associations feature (which i really like).

Thread and CHIP are getting a lot of hype. But I’m not buying into it yet. Of course the demos are going to be fast when the switch is sitting right next to the hub and its the only thing on the network but how will the network perform when we have 200 devices in a regular home? This is when we start to have issues with interference etc.

And it also comes down to the manufactures. Most of my zwave/zigbee issues aren’t necessarily with the specs, but the devices that the manufactures put out with bugs or that don’t follow the specs exactly.

We will probably get to the point where our hubs will support zwave/chip/thread and CHIP. As long as I can still choose whatever I want to integrate I’ll be happy.

Yes this is very likely, and from a consumer perspective this is great, more choice the better. But from a developer/designer perspective, that is just yet another thing to debug, another thing to manage the eccentricities of, another to pay licenses for, etc. Again, if it has tangible benefits, I am all for it, but to my knowledge that has not been expressed really anywhere, and if the benefits are not known yet, then why is the public even aware of it, I feel like it should still be in RnD then.

Like take the FAQ on this page for instance. I don’t know about you, but most of that section just screams red flag to me.

Only if the new choice IS better and I doubt it will be.

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I’m expecting us to end up in a CHIP world where you see something like …

“device X, CHIP compatible, but feature Y only works with Alexa and Feature Z only works with google home”

Kind of like how Wifi is. All the devices can use Wifi but only communicate with certain ecosystems. I just feel like they are going to find some way to make these things work only with their devices.

That IMO will be the demise of smart home as we know it and I really hope it does not go down that way.

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What do you mean by this? you’d have chosen zigbee all day long?

Yes, I probably would have. Each protocol has challenges, but yes. I believe I would have chosen either zigbee or wifi. Now that I have a wifi system that will handle things. The Shelly’s are proving to be very responsive. Although I only have 3 Shelly1’s and 8 Shelly Duo bulbs, I’m rather fond of them. I won’t be replacing z-wave with z-wave. I’ll find something else when the time comes. I’m not going to dump everything I have. I find that z-wave seems more prominent in the US than anywhere else. (but more of an observation than anything.). Some places z-wave isn’t even accepted at all.

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This might be key moving forward. With damn near everything wanting an IP these days, your average consumer router might not cut it. Just when you think you knew IP, now your gonna need to be a subnet expert!

TBH I’d rather most these device not be directly addressable. In the risk/reward department not sure it wins. But in the “easy” / “lazy” category they win hands down :frowning:

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I made the mistake of avoiding wifi as everyone said it would be awful, but that’s for consumer grade gear. I have a unifi system (like you) i’d be interested to know if you’d convert fully to wifi? or will you always be a mix of Wifi and Zigbee?

No, I think I’ll have the mix of the three. I’ll phase z-wave out as time passes, but I"m not throwing away a working device, which is why z-wave will probably be around my house for a while. Anything new will be zigbee or wifi.

Personally It will always be a mix here… Zigbee for sensors so they can be battery powered, Wifi For lighting and devices.

There is no right or wrong solution overall. Each protocol has its strengths and weaknesses, BUT that being said when you have Real networking equipment and a proper set up Wifi devices are rock solid, and in my experience MUCH faster to respond than a zigbee or zwave device. Also Wifi signals penetrate better and reach further (again based on life experience)

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That’s part of my thinking. I get WiFi all round my house but I always avoided WiFi devices as I didn’t want them to interfere with my network. I may look at some WiFi devices tho

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Really? That is interesting, in my experience my Kasa Switches are notoriously slow to respond, ranging from 0.5 to 1.5 seconds after a zigbee motion trigger (Iris 3326-L). Maybe that is just those switches though, I would be interested in trying a tasmota-based switch.

Also are my expectations just too high? I have only ever had Kasa switches so I have no clue if Zigbee or Z-Wave ones are any faster.